Power supplies

Discuss the CreatiVision hardware: models, revisions, fixing, hacking and modding.
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carlsson
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Power supplies

Post by carlsson » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:05 am

After the informal discussions about various power supplies, I got curious and looked through all the uploaded images in the hardware database. This is what I found is written down on each power supply:

Japan: 9V DC 1.2A + 16V DC 250 mA
Sweden, Italy, CV Mk II: 9.2V AC 1A + 16V AC 250 mA
Hong Kong, South Africa, Austria, Wizzard: 9V AC 1A + 16V AC 250 mA
Rameses: 9V 1A + 16V 250 mA (not specified AC or DC)

Only the Japanese power supply has a pinout printed on the case:

Code: Select all

#   _ _   1 = 16V
#  / v \  2 = 16V
# |1   5| 3 = N (NC?)
# |2   4| 4 = -9V
#  \_3_/  5 = +9V
I don't know if this pinout is the same on all power supplies, except the 16V lines also are separated by positive and negative current to create the AC. From what I know, I suppose there is a big rectifier or other circuit inside the Creativision that converts those voltages to DC. I have seen some pictures.

Now to the computer version, the Laser 2001. As mentioned elsewhere, recently an early machine was spotted and seems to take the same inputs as the Creativision series does. This is different from later Laser 2001 and Salora Managers who seem to use this pinout:

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#   _ _   1: -5V, 50 mA
#  / v \  2: +12V, 500 mA
# |1   5| 3: NC
# |2   4| 4: GND
#  \_3_/  5: +5V, 850 - 1000 mA 
(courtesy of Luca's power supply, since mine wrongly illustrates a 6-pin DIN)

Well, clearly both different voltages and a different layout. Without digging too deep into the technical details, is it known which voltages the Creativision uses internally? Is there a circuit inside which brings down the 9V AC/DC to 5V and similarly converts 16V to 12V? For me, the confusion is rather major although in practise it is a non-issue as long as you have the original power supply and it still works.
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MADrigal
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Re: Power supplies

Post by MADrigal » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:32 pm

carlsson wrote:After the informal discussions about various power supplies, I got curious and looked through all the uploaded images in the hardware database. This is what I found is written down on each power supply:

Japan: 9V DC 1.2A + 16V DC 250 mA
Sweden, Italy, CV Mk II: 9.2V AC 1A + 16V AC 250 mA
Hong Kong, South Africa, Austria, Wizzard: 9V AC 1A + 16V AC 250 mA
Rameses: 9V 1A + 16V 250 mA (not specified AC or DC)
That's not 100% correct.

CV Japanese: works in DC (signal rectifier is inside the external power supply)
All other models, incl. Rameses, Wizzard and Funvision: all work in AC (signal rectifier is inside the console)

Laser 2001 "early": works in AC (never seen an original adapter, but I assume it's the same as CV Mark-2, read below)
Laser 2001 "later": works in DC, same as mine and Anders'.

Voltages: 9V for "earlier" models (all except CV Mark-2) and 9.2V for "later" model (that's CV Mark-2). But 9V and 9.2V is just written in power supplies stickers, and in my opinion, all power supplies are exactly the same (internally).
carlsson wrote: Only the Japanese power supply has a pinout printed on the case:

Code: Select all

#   _ _   1 = 16V
#  / v \  2 = 16V
# |1   5| 3 = N (NC?)
# |2   4| 4 = -9V
#  \_3_/  5 = +9V
I don't know if this pinout is the same on all power supplies, except the 16V lines also are separated by positive and negative current to create the AC. From what I know, I suppose there is a big rectifier or other circuit inside the Creativision that converts those voltages to DC. I have seen some pictures.
Yes, all consoles power connectors have the same pinout, except the Japanese which comes in DC except AC.
carlsson wrote: Well, clearly both different voltages and a different layout. Without digging too deep into the technical details, is it known which voltages the Creativision uses internally? Is there a circuit inside which brings down the 9V AC/DC to 5V and similarly converts 16V to 12V? For me, the confusion is rather major although in practise it is a non-issue as long as you have the original power supply and it still works.
Yes, internal circuits convert 9V into 5V, and 16,5V into 12V. The original VTech data-sheets show that - did I send you copies of those .gif diagrams?

Creativision and Laser 2001, all work with 5V and 12V (5V is used for 6502, RAM, etc. and I think that 12V is used for RF modulator and cassette tape player).
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carlsson
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Re: Power supplies

Post by carlsson » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:28 am

Has anyone tried to feed "European" Creativisions with DC? I seem to recall that in one direction it usually is safe, but I can't remember if it is AC -> DC or vice versa. If you feed it with DC, would it be OK to use something like 5VDC 2A + 12V 0.5A in order to match or supercede the original specs of 9VAC 1A + 16VAC 0.25A?

The thing is that two of my friends who got themselves Creativision units locally - like I mentioned before, they pop up like mushrooms in my city - are missing original power supplies. From a trading point of view, a home made supply won't add any value, but at least it would make it possible to use. Now 9VAC 1A is not hard to find, but a bit more bargain hunting to find the 16VAC and then wire those two up. Alternatively I suppose one could use a beefy 2x16VAC transformer and through some circuit I don't know how it looks reduce one of the voltages to 9V. Still it would cost a bit unless one finds scavenged parts. On the other hand, a 5VDC + 12VDC solution is available to almost everyone, e.g. an old AT PC power supply or even ATX with some hack, or from China eBay for a few dollars.

Edit: I looked it up, and the general consensus seems to be that a device which expects AC and has built-in rectifying and voltage regulator can be powered from a DC source, irregardless of DC polarity. However the rectifying parts can get warm due to the constant polarity. I suppose lower voltages somehow can compensate for that, but perhaps 5V input is too low if the voltage drops during rectifying and then the regulator to reduce 9V to 5V wouldn't operate on 5V input? It should be worth investigating though, checking those schematics.
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carlsson
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Re: Power supplies

Post by carlsson » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:30 am

I just found the product below. While it has a 5-pin DIN, I don't expect it to be pin-compatible out of the box with the CreatiVision, but who knows? I tried to locate the manufacturer for possible additional details, but I was not able to find more at the moment.

http://www.doss.com.au/ac9n16v-9v-16v-d ... -ac-power/

22.00 AUD from Radioparts: http://www.radioparts.com.au/product/33 ... n-din-plug
25.10 AUD from eBay: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/310869457839

Not sure about international shipping, but it should be workable. Obviously for most of us, the 230V plug would need to be replaced to use it.
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Re: Power supplies

Post by MADrigal » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:42 pm

Wow very cool! Might be a good replacement for the original CV transformer
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Re: Power supplies

Post by MADrigal » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:22 am

I have recently found this picture on an auction on Ebay Italia.

The power supply seems genuine to me. PMA is a hardware parts producer, located in the same area where the Zanussi factories were back in the 80's. PMA is still alive and active.

I suppose this power supply was specifically made by PMA for Zanussi, as a replacement for broken/defective PSU's.

I'm guessing whether it was given with the console, or was it available from the official Zanussi repair centre (post-sale service).

Anyway, I find it fascinating. Sadly the seller didn't give me any information on the buyer, so I couldn't contact him and ask for more specific details.
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carlsson
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Re: Power supplies

Post by carlsson » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:22 pm

I sent a question to Doss asking for pinout, but haven't heard anything yet. I suppose one could always buy a power supply and measure it. In worst case, one would have to snip off the 5-pin DIN and solder a new one in place. At least that one I found is cheaper than the R-core transformers I was thinking about before, now if AC input is required/desired. I know we discussed there will be rectifiers and regulators inside, but would those cause zero voltage drop if they were already fed with those 5VDC + 12VDC that otherwise they output?

Of course if one bypasses the rectifiers and regulators, DC input is obvious but it would mean more or less modification of the Creativision console for those without a power supply. That is why those 9VAC + 16VAC ones look promising (and I've got TWO friends with Creativision that lack PSU).
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Re: Power supplies

Post by MADrigal » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:14 pm

@Carlsson: I suppose that PSU sold by DOSS is a perfect replacement for CreatiVision PSU. It's AC-AC, so it needs no changes/mods. At least you could replace the DIN and the power plug and make it fully compatible to an European CV. :-)
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Re: Power supplies

Post by jpx072 » Sun May 11, 2014 8:07 am

Has anyone tried to power the CreatiVision with something else than the mentioned power requirements?
I mean inside of the machine, I think there is a simple diode bridge (or similar) to turn AC to DC and right after there are two DC voltage regulators 7805 and 7812, which produce 5V and 12V - both DC. Do we really need to have AC 9V and 16V at input? If I understand it right, I only need 5V DC and 12V DC when I remove the AC/DC bridge and skip the 7805 and 7812. Is there something inside the machine that needs more than 12 volts?
By the way, any standard PC PSU (power supply unit) has DC 5V and 12V on the output. Also produces very stable and strong power. So ideal for powering the CreatiVision.
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Re: Power supplies

Post by MADrigal » Sun May 11, 2014 8:53 am

For your info, the only CreatiVision with custom-made PCB (I mean, specially designed for that model), completely different to any other model, is the Japanese one.

The power supply is AC-DC as opposed to the "usual" AC-AC.

It outputs signal at 16,5V (DC) and 9V (DC). I don't remember whether which IC's are there to bring the signal down to 12 and 5. Also, the PCB has a large metal shield over it, covering most of the IC's.
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